Carriage Horse Controversy: Tradition or Cruelty?

Carriage Horse Controversy: Tradition or Cruelty?

Think of the perfect night of romance. Dinner
at an expensive restaurant, maybe a moonlit walk, or even better, a horse drawn carriage
ride under the stars. You feel the gentle breeze on your skin, hear the serenading of
crickets, the clip clop of the horse’s hooves. Or, actually, the drag, clop…and her
loud, labored wheezing, and the click and grind of teeth against metal as she neurotically
chomps at the bit. Like I said. Romantic. Hi it’s Emily from Bite Size Vegan and welcome
to another vegan nugget. This video is the fourth in my series on horse ethics. In the
first, we looked at horse riding in general and the musculoskeletal damage that it causes
as well as whether riding itself is ethical. In the second, we took a closer look at the
effects of the bit in particular, and in the third, took a hard look at possibly the largest,
cruelest, and most deeply corrupt horse industry- horse racing. I strongly urge you to watch the video on
horse racing to further expose the industry for what it is- a cash machine built, literally,
on the backs of living, sentient beings who are, also literally, ridden into the ground
and discarded. I’ll have links to that video and the entire horse ethics playlist in the
description below But today we’re going to talk about the
horse carriage industry. Carriage horses are a longstanding tradition in many cities in
the United States, and internationally. In some areas of the world they are still a practical
means of transportation. What I’m going to focus on today are entertainment-based
horse carriage rides- you can watch my video on horse riding for the ethical and vegan stance
of on even the “practical” use of horses. Also, I won’t be going into the effects
of the bit and harnesses on carriage horses in this today as I covered those in detail
in the previous videos. Horse carriage rides have been in and out
of the news in the US in recent years, especially with New York mayor Bill de Blasio’s 2013
campaign platform including the clear intention to ban the industry altogether and replace
horse-drawn carriages with clean energy electric cars, something he is still struggling to
achieve as he’s repeatedly come up against strong opposition. Before I get into the arguments on either
side, let’s take a look back at the origins of this industry. It was roughly sometime
around 6000BC when we realized we could get animals to carry things for us and sometime
around 3500B.C. when we added wheels to a sled to make the first cart and then sometime
around 1300BC when we had the genius idea to show a piece of metal between the teeth
of a horse to control them better. Fast forward a good deal and the first stagecoaches for
hire we introduced in London as early as 1625. It wasn’t until around 1825 that regular
stagecoaches services were established in the United States, with Hansom cabs operating
in major cities and stagecoach lines running on regular schedules throughout the east by
the 1840’s. So that’s a pretty long-held tradition as far as the United States in concerned.
You see, we think a hundred years is incredibly long ago. So you see, horse-drawn carriages are a time-honored
tradition. And guess what? So is the animal abuse. According to Lee Siegel’s engaging
article “Clomping Towards Oblivion,” “The [horse-drawn carriage] business was constantly
being regulated and reregulated, but abuse of the animals was common practice.” Interestingly
enough, it was brazen cruelty like drivers whipping their horses openly that spurred
the formation of the now well-known ASPCA, or American Society for the Prevention of
Cruelty to Animals in 1866. And while the ASPCA did make headway in ensuring a higher
standard of treatment for carriage horses, they also became the leading killer of horses
in the city as insurance companies wouldn’t pay for lame horses if the policyholder shot
them- so the ASPCA operatives would. With the rise of the automobile, by the twenties,
horse-drawn carriages were becoming more of a romantic luxury or quaint and charming activity.
In New York City the carriage horses were limited to the area around and inside Central
Park in 1989. Since then, multitudes of various rules and ragulations have come and gone.
Temperature and time limits, vacation mandates, and the like. So, let’s look at the arguments for and
against the horse carriage industry. Opponents cite the sobering array of horse-drawn carriage
accidents resulting property destruction, and the severe injury or even death of horses
and humans alike. The majority of the accidents are cause by horses spooking- meaning being
frightened and taking off or acting erratically. A survey of national carriage horse accidents
found that 70 percent of the time there was a human injury, and 22 percent of the time
there was a human death. The survey also found that in New York City, which has the highest
carriage horse accident rate in the country, 98 percent of the horses who “spooked” became
injured. Injuries and fatalities resulting from collisions between cars and carriage
horses have occurred in almost every city that allows carriage rides. Carriage horses
also sometimes collapse from heat exhaustion, which can be fatal. I’ve linked to an incidents fact sheet in
the blog post for this video along with other articles and resources if you want to look
further into this subject the blog post is linked in the video description below. Aside from the incidents and injuries, horse-drawn
carriage opponents also cite the objectionable living and working conditions. While there
are supposed to be time and temperature limits for carriage horses, the spokeswoman for the
New York City carriage industry, Christina Hansen, was caught on tape in July 2013 giving
a carriage ride after the city had suspended drivers due to the extreme heat. Horses are afforded no federal protection
under the Animal Welfare Act, so the responsibility of looking out for horses’ welfare falls
to local animal control officials, who often simply don’t have the time, resources, or
even interest to properly enforce city mandates. These horses are working 9 hour days breathing
in exhaust fumes and trudging along on hard pavement. Veterinarian Jeffie Roszel states
that, “tracheal washes and samples from respiratory secretions of these horses showed
enormous lung damage, the same kind of damage you would expect from a heavy smoker,” adding
that carriage horses are “truly…living a nose-to-tailpipe existence.” Sadly, their off hours aren’t much brighter.
In New York City in particular, carriage horses live in a multi-storied stable that they have
to walk up and down to their sometimes windowless 60 square foot stalls. Raids on stables have
found standing excrement, rotten floorboards leading to broken legs, land lack of fresh
water and food. This is not to say all carriage horse stalls are in deplorable conditions,
but regardless, these animals go from walking in circles on concrete in clouds of exhaust
to walking up several stories to closed in concrete stalls. With the constant walking and standing on
hard surfaces, veterinarian Holly Cheever states that, “lameness and hoof deterioration
are inevitable.” So, what happens when these horses’ bodies
finally betray them? Like most failed racing horses, the final destination for many carriage
horses is slaughter. They are sent to auction to be sold for a pittance, shipped to Canada
or Mexico and slaughtered for pet food or overseas human consumption. . It’s a terrifying, painful and thankless
end to their life of servitude. So, what are the arguments for keeping this
industry around? Well…carriage rides are…kinda fun. Okay that’s not the only reason given.
Those fighting to save the industry mainly cite tradition and the jobs of the carriage
drivers, and are sure to mention that in New York City, carriage horses have a mandated
five weeks a year in open pastures. Talk about your lavish vacation, eh? Making the news many times, actor Liam Neeson
is surprisingly passionate about this issue, telling Jon Stwart that, “These guys treat
these horses like their children,” to which Stewart aptly responded would not be seen
as good parenting by the Division of Youth and Family Services. The stronger argument from this camp, in a sense, of this
camp is that the horse carriage drivers will be jobless with the dissolution of the industry.
This argument is often used against a worldwise shift to veganism- what would the workers
of the animal products industry do? Well, with progress comes the loss of certain jobs,
but the creation of others. Think about technology and all the jobs it has displaced, yet simultaneously
created. There are people whose job it is to manage social media accounts. They are
paid to tweet. Who saw that coming? On another note, think of it this way- if
we found a way to cure all diseases in this world, doctors would be out of work. If we
found a way to end crime, law enforcement would be out of work. If we cured mental illness,
therapists would be scrambling to support themselves. And hell, if we abolished all
forms of exploitation, I’d have to make videos about…cats or something. And also,
just because you can make money from something, doesn’t make it right. The fact that people will lose their jobs
and have to find alternative employment after the dissolution of an unjust industry does
not make the industry just. We’re talking dollars to lives. You can get another job,
but these horses have but one life, and it’s not meant to be spent like this. I’d love to hear from you on this topic-
where do you stand in the debate? Let me know in the comments. If you find these educational
videos effective and helpful, please help them continue by supporting Bite Size Vegan-
you can chck out either of the support links in the video description for both one time
donation information and to join the Nugget Army on Patreon, where you receive perks and
rewards for your support. You can also click on that logo there. If you enjoyed this video,
give it a big thumbs up and please share it around to spread the message. If you’re
new hear, be sure to hit that big red subscribe button for more awesome vegan content every
Monday, Wednesday, and some Fridays. I would love to have you as a subscriber. And hey, while you’re here, check out some of my other related videos from the horse ethics playlist and everything that I’ve mentioned is on the screen right now and it also linked in the description below for all of you on a phone or a tablet and can’t do the clicking Now go live vegan, and I’ll
see you soon. So if Liam Neeson thinks that the way carriage
horses are treated is how you treat your children…someone should really check on his kids. Subtitles by the community

99 thoughts on “Carriage Horse Controversy: Tradition or Cruelty?

  1. bring back the human pulled rickshaws ย hong kong style , the carriage owners would get in great shape with all that extra cardio and the horses would take a break for good

  2. I never understood how smelling horse farts and defecation could be a romantic method of transportation……….

  3. Even though this isn't a "public" carriage ride, the Budweiser clydstales are treated AMAZING. I have Brent o their barn, and it's probably better and cleaner than my own home.
    Also, can you a do a vegan video on the TERRIBLE industry of the "Big Lick Riders" who ride TWH's with an over-exaggerated gate and abuse them to get them there? Thanks!

  4. This is why I absolutely adore you. You bring attention to issues that a lot of people decide to just sweep under the rug. I have a special place in my heart for horses (well for all animals, really) so this really touches me.

  5. I fell in love with ponies and horses at first sight as a small child, so begged my dad to get me a horse as a teen. I truly loved Ginger, a lovely Morgan/quarter horse cross, and had 14 years with her out on the trails, having all sorts of adventures…she was a dear animal. I rode on her back, yes, and was always aware of my parasite status in doing so. I did the best I could with what I knew all along, and saw terrible things happen throughout those years of being around stables and horse people, cowboys and such. Animal abuse is rampant in that world. It's what first got me seriously into animal liberation, opposed to their exploitation and slaughter. So yes, those carriages are definitely wrong, it is cruelty, and those horses should not be out among car traffic, in shackles, and the people using them mostly hate animals, need to use and dominate them to feel "powerful." Thank you Emily.
    PS: I didn't use a bit in Ginger's mouth, used a hackamore and didn't abuse it, she was sensitive, as they all are.

  6. Memphis, Tennessee still has slavery rides.
    I WILL look into their 'rules' and though i might not be able to do much, I sure will call someone next time I see those horses working outside of the 'allowed conditions'.
    These horses that 'work' downtown and have to walk from their stable… I don't know about other people who live downtown Memphis like me… But I sure as hell don't see any pastures around here!

  7. thank you for your take on the lousy "job argument" traditionalists like to use. they don't want to understand that with change comes… well, change, obviously.

  8. Unfortunately, my mom thinks animals were put here to experiment on, use, kill and that if we didn't kill them off they would over populate the world. ๐Ÿ˜”๐Ÿ˜”๐Ÿ˜”๐Ÿ˜” she is extremely defensive. I talked to her about animal testing last night and she said it's ok it does not hurt them. They should be tested on. All this after stuffing dead chicken carcass down her gullet. She refuses to take the blinders off because quote " I probably would not be able to eat meat knowing what happens" ๐Ÿ˜’๐Ÿ˜ข that's the point…. She thinks animals have no soul or spirit. They are just here for us to do whatever to. Not "house animals" though. Those are the special ones. ๐Ÿ˜ข๐Ÿ˜ข the only ones that have feelings. I am at loss. I want her to know everything that goes on. I want her to feel guilty when she eats carcass.

  9. I often agree with many of your points, but not this one. I've lived in NYC my entire life, with 4 generations behind me. Not once have we seen horses being abused. I actually live in Brooklyn, and the horses here are kept in such great condition. They're all very heathy and happy. In Manhattan, they are too. Liam Neeson isn't wrong– have you ever been here? The men (and women) driving them really do treat them like their pride and joy. I also wanted to state that there aren't really that many horses here either. Mostly bicycle carts. Anyway, my main point is it wouldn't be so easy to have everyone switch to the electric cars the mayor wants (not to mention Deblasio is an idiot in every political sense… Hasn't done a damned thing because he's way to left wing to ever get anything done), because it would require new licenses, which would require tons of money. Most of the licenses are passed from father to son, and that's the real tradition, not the romantic sunset rides in Central Park. NYC sure is flawed, but this is in no way our largest issue, and it's ridiculous to focus on it as if it is.

  10. I just lost faith in some parts of my culture. First lain neisin is irish second Ireland is considered the best horse training country in the world and third it's in the top six beef exporting countries in the world but not in the top five potato exporters in the world. WHAT! English people hav got the irish stereotype all rong๐Ÿ€

  11. I just went for a walk and saw three horses in a small field with no food and they started grazing on the mud as there was no grass left. They also started eating the little grass that was over the barbed wire and there throats started bleeding so I went and got them some carrots and apples but wtf why is this even legal! Cows are treated better and we all know how bad their conditions are!

  12. You forgot to mention the sound of horse shit hitting the ground. Aw, love is in the air, or is that just the horse's poofume? Speaking poop, congrats Liam Neeson. You're on my shit list. I'm glad Darth Maul killed you in Episode I lol.

  13. Thank you for standing up for the horses.ย  You should also mention there would be plenty of work for people to do if so many of our jobs were not outsourced to China for practically slave wages….wages so low no one would be able to support a family or compete with.ย  Slavery is not over – not for animals, not for horses, and not for the world's poor.

  14. Also, it it is so bad for the horse's lungs it is probably bad for the riders as well…take that horse carriage owners.ย  GO BILL DEBLASIO!!!ย  You need to run for President, Bill ๐Ÿ™‚

  15. One last thought……if you run out of things to say about Veganism, guess what?ย  There are so many screwed up things out there in the world – deforestation, run away capitalism, child labor, etc, etc, etc…..check out Derrick Jensen's channel "Deep Green Resistance" for more ideas.ย  Thanks.

  16. Okay, I know this is off-topic but I really wanted your input on this!
    So, I rescued a lizard and a snake before my vegan days. The lizard eats almost entirely fruits and veggies which is great. Occasionally I have to throw a worm in, but rarely. Unfortunately, the snake eats frozen mice. Now, I've been in constant conflict in my time as a vegan knowing that I have to go out and buy frozen little mice to keep my snake alive. I'm constantly in a paradox: I made a commitment to this snake when I took him out of a bad situation, I thought I was doing a great thing. However, I think about how many helpless creatures have to die to feed him. Despite the fact that snakes eat very rarely, this doesn't help ease my conscious. Is one life worth so many others? But I can't imagine what I would do otherwise. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. I look at his little face and just think of how all I ever wanted was to make sure this animal was safe, secure, and able to live out his days in peace. However, the VEGAN me sees the truth in my past ignorance.

  17. Not saying carriage horse industry is good by no means, but if it wasnt for certain horse owners like myself, horses would be extint, in nevada when any wild horse is close to a highway its shot, if we wanted to save millions of animals a year like deer, squirrels, etc…we should ban cars, but thats not practical cause people come up with excuses or reasons to own a car to justify the animal deaths caused by them, hippocrites who pick what animals are worthy of death based on there lifestyle,,,,, Tired of hippocrites who have no common sense,

  18. Outstanding video! We are ashamed to admit that we had a horse-drawn carriage on our wedding day. And Natasha had taken a ride in NY many years ago. We knew nothing of animal suffering back then. We regret our past actions so much … but all we can do is focus on the now and help others wake up and not make the same mistakes we did. Thank you for sharing this information – such a great horse series!!

  19. Yep, Liam likes those4 carriages. That's why I'm starting a petition suggesting a bill that NYC allow Liam to manually pull carriages. What type of bit should we get him?

  20. Thank you for covering this topic! Only 5 weeks per year, gee, I used to always hope they went home to large fields every night. :S And later sold for horse meat too, wow, they really know how to maximize their profit off of these innocent beings. The horses are often out in such warm weather, and you really can hear their laboured breathing. Human powered bicycle carriages are a nice alternative… where the humans choose to have the job… and get paid for it. Probably works best in cities with flatter terrain, especially for heavier cargo! It's a good way to stay fit during the summer too. ๐Ÿ˜‰

  21. This is so cruel I knew about this not a long time ago and here in Ottawa there everywhere how can I help them there in such bad shape too!

  22. just another way to make money and keep people fat….ride a bike for transportation… most americans are too fat and sick to ride a bike…this makes me sick!…keep up the great work.

  23. I know this is completely unrelated to this video but you give great advice Emily. I got my mom to watch Forks over Knives last night in an attempt to get her to stop eating meat and dairy… She physically cannot watch earthlings unless I strap her to a chair and tape her eyes open lol so that wouldn't have worked. She is morbidly obese but has no major diseases but some health issues so I thought it would be effective. She woke up this morning and said that I'm right she should probably eat less meat and she's just been on YouTube looking at videos of some cute pigs and goats and it seems like it's making sense to her now and she wants to give away all the bacon and rest of the meats she has kept in our fridge. But then she said to me "I don't really care about fish, they're not cute like how pigs are so I don't really feel sorry for them"
    What can I show her to get through to her that they should not be eaten as well ? I fail to explain honestly.. I'm a new vegan (2 and a half months now) and honestly I get very upset and defensive when people say that to me so it's not very effective so idk what to do

  24. The USE of any animal in any industry for profit always leads to abUSE. It's unavoidable and inevitable first and foremost because it steals the animal's autonomy.

  25. Saw a lot of this when I was in Malta, and it's just hearbreaking to see. Anatomically, horses are better suited for pulling than being ridden, but there's a massive difference between going for a bitless drive now and then because you can't provide the horse with exercise other ways and THIS. Anytime anyone tries to make money of animals, the animals suffer ๐Ÿ™

  26. thank you for this video. lots of good info. ย i'm a new yorker, and a vegan and i can't wait to celebrate the day the carriage horse ban becomes a reality. going to share and watch the others!

  27. My family actually owns some horses on our farm they are all rescues mostly retired racers and two used to pull carriages.we never ride them we do sometimes over feed them and not notice till they get fat though mainly we are a big family and the kids always sneak them treats. When we first got them they were so scared and wouldn't go near anybody now they run towards you when you whistle and they play with each other in the pasture. However I'm the only vegetarian in my family and I will be vegan as soon as I turn 18 because my parents won't let me right now. They take offense to my cruelty free choice I guess.

  28. Thank you for all your great videos! I heard your background music and realized it's the song I've been looking for! Do you know the name?

  29. I'm sure it was uttered many times in the somewhat distant past, something to the effect of "think about the jobs of the slave drivers!"ย 

  30. I weighed in on an internet news story about this subject. There where many good responses about animals welfare, even ย from the carriage driver in the clip. But ultimately it comes down to the tradition and job of the owner. "Oh what will I do," poor human, can't seem to get around the fact that this is slavery and that there are plenty of humane jobs to be had. I suggested that he start a rickshaw company with bicycles and paid student drivers. No response given. Traditions can change and be better for all concerned. Go Vegan!ย 

  31. Liam Neeson doesn't have a clue, does he? I live in Quebec City, we have plenty of those, and they are miserable. One of my friend told me that he worked as a 'driver' for a few weeks many years ago and it literally traumatized him. He heard a horse collapsing and dying from exhaustion. He is now supporting MFA and other organisations like that, no wonder why…

  32. Thank you for this video. It was very well put together. I am against the horse carriage industry. I live in NYC and I see these poor horses who in traffic behind a bus. I know DeBlasio has a bit of pressure between the animal rights activists the horse carriage union workers, but I hope he does the right thing and bans the horse carriage industry.

    For one, I would love to see the electric cars (which the horse carriage drivers would drive)
    and two, I think it would be a great tourist attraction (if that their concern) to create an animal sanctuary in central park, where people can visit the horses (not ride them), and the focus is on compassion and not commodity.

    That being said, I am typically pro-union (and as an activist, I have often fought for the efforts of the unions), but in this case, (and as a a vegan and animal rights activist) I just don't agree with what they're fighting for.

    p.s. sometimes when I go by central park, and I see the horses some of them just look so sad. the drivers always tell me, oh they just have "soulful eyes" but they're not really sad, but then these are the same people who say that the horses love to go to work. Here is an example of a sad looking horse <3ย 

  33. You should do one on rodeos, dressage,show jumping, and cross country. You will be surprised how horrible they are too.

  34. Thank you for sharing Emily. For me this is a major topic as I've recently visited Cuba, Varadero and seen theese poor horses dragging those carridges around – and OMG there were so many of them. The horses looked so skinny, tired, nearly alive. I couldn't enjoy my vacation there – I cried every single time I heard them coming close to me… we talked to my bf about signing a petition or writing a letter to the government but he said that cuba is communist country and they can do whatever they want. I feel helpless…It needs to be stoped!

  35. I understand that some horse carriages, like NYC do not take the best care of their horses but that's not how all of them are. I drove carriages for a year for a great company. The horses were all kept in large stalls during their work days. They always had fresh water, clean bedding, and hay. All of our horses were rotated out to pasture. They would work for 2 weeks(5 days out of the week with 2 days off at the barn) and then spend 2 weeks at our farm out in the country. They were groomed and checked over for injuries, both before and after their shifts. We didn't go out if it was over 90 degrees. None of us carried whips and our horses were never to go faster then a walk except for in emergency situations. We all loved those horses and had our favorite ones to work with. When it came time for the horses to retire, one of the drivers would take them home. I have one standing in my pasture now.

    These horses were bred for centuries to do one thing, work. They got excited when they were harnessed up and always gave everything their all. They trusted their drivers and we trusted them. One of them even stopped an assault on me by a strange man by grabbing his shoulder and flinging him to the ground. When the man got up to try to hit me, my horse bared his teeth like a dog and pinned his ears back while he leaned his neck across me.

  36. I live in a town where all summer long we have horse & carriage rides.This is cruel the traffic noises, the car exhaust I feel sorry for them it is a misery for them.

  37. You are seriously ignorant about horses.ย  Do yourself a favor, actually learn about horses before spewing this nonsense! Not just animal "rights" propaganda, but actual flesh and blood horses.

    Christina Hansen was NOT giving a ride after temperature restrictions were put in place. NO TEMPERATURE BAN WAS EVER CALLED. NYCLASS's ignorant Exec Dir. Allie Feldman made it all up. She claimed that "the ASPCA and the Mayor's office" called the ban, but the ASPCA had stopped overseeing the horses six months prior, and the mayor's office isn't in charge of calling a ban. The police, using a calibrated thermometer at the hack line are in charge, and THEY NEVER CALLED A BAN. Christina was standing next to mounted police officer when she picked up her last fare, if HE didn't tell her about any ban, how would she have known? So Christina Hansen did exactly as she was supposed to for a voluntary heat restriction, she finished her fare, and went back to the stables. She was in compliance with every regulation. What you are putting out is a BALD FACED LIE. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF.

    Your willful disregard of the truth puts this whole video in doubt.

  38. Her video shows nothing. Her words have been proven to be false. Anyone can take a video of a horse and carriage on the public street. It does not prove her allegations. Driver took horse back to stable immediately following this ride AS THE LAW INSTRUCTS HER TO DO. No law was violated. This is an example of how NYCLASS ย "proves" their own lies.

  39. Horses are beautiful creatures
    I have grown up with them my whole life, it is not abuse, and btw THE BRIDEL BIT DOESNT JUST GET WEDGES BETWEEN THE TEETH, it is in a natural gap between the teeth, you are no better than a politician, strong willed people like you make this world a horrible and annoying place for everyone

  40. Six thousand views? But stupid shit like Gangnam Style have over a billion?

    What the fuck kind of a world do we live in?

  41. You have to dig up a study from 1988 done by a non-equine vet working for an organization that wants to see the carriages banned to support your argument of poor health? There are dozens of more recent exams done by actual equine vets. The ASPCA'S actions surrounding the death of Charlie in which they pressured their vet to sign off on a false and damaging necropsy report, then fired her when she came clean about it, should bring any report from them into question.

  42. I love you're explanation about jobs at the end of this. There is a shift however within equine and animal industries (at least in the UK) to look into detail about ethics and researching how to optimise welfare. It's far from being perfect or even having people listen to it, but the fact that it is taught at Universities (where the future of these industries are studying) gives me some hope. I'm very on the fence on a lot of equestrianism – on one side if horses weren't used for pleasure/ sport the majority of them would be slaughtered/ abandoned but I don't agree with the cruelty involved in everyday recreational riding let alone the sports/ entertainment industry.

  43. The City of Fort Myers Florida is meeting Monday 10/19 to vote on allowing horse drawn carriages on a daily basis. We are collecting signatures tonight to take to the counsel meeting to try to stop it before it happens. Its a crazy world we live in. Thanks for this video.

  44. This is the only video I've agreed with you. City carriage horses is so sad. Horse riding is not cruel at all! But the city carriage pulling is cruel.

  45. I drive horses on Mackinac Island, a small island in Northern Michigan where horses and bikes are the only modes of transportation. And I must say I don't agree with the living conditions of the horses in NYC, but beyond that those horses are hardly doing work to their capacity. Horses, especially draft horses can do an awe inspiring amount of work and love doing it. Your less than adequate history lesson about horses and man paints it in a demeaning picture that suggests we shouldn't have ever domesticated them for work. These animals are born and bred for what they do and they love to pull. Horses pulling carriages is not cruelty and I suggest that you try working with horses before you pass any judgement about what they should or should not be doing. From my experience all of these complainers ubiquitously stating "Ohh those poor horses" don't know shit from Shinola when it comes to horses.

  46. wrong. All stalls are in deplorable condition. they are stalls. Horses need an open area to be with other horses

  47. my peice here: They are some carriage's i have heard off that have exceptionally good conditons. the horses work only on weekends, or a couple hours during the day. not to mention, due to heat, they take a break. if that IS true, let those live, if they are in super great conditions, they're NEVER overloaded, and are driven gently. if those don't exist,, however, than i'd rather you get your own horse if you enjoy nicely kept rides. keep em in good condition, and take yourself out for a ride every now and then.. but otherwise, let the cruel one's fall.

  48. This is not all true I know that the horses of +barryhook2 are soooo well looked after with rubber bits and dentists and farriers out and the horses are 98% bombproof (I won't say 100% because they are still animals) stop blaming all equestrians for animal abuse yes this is bad what your showing but in sure you could make a video about other pets e.g dogs or cats that get abuse more than horse..๐Ÿ™„ inexperienced twat ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

  49. Definitely do not agree with how long they have to drive carriages, they should be able to stay in fields not just for 5 weeks every year. But if their welfare was better, I think carriage driving would be okay

  50. Oh and the only carriage ride I have been on was for my prom which was for about 10 minutes and I visited the yard where they were kept which was amazing

  51. There are lots of accidents because of idiot car drivers. Once again in England the horses are treated much better as population is far smaller. Horses are half tonne animals and if they didn't want to do something, damn they wouldn't. Ok there are loads of gypsies who treat their horses badly, lots of people who want the money, loads who just see horses as money machines, and more than half the population of equestrians who treat their horses, no matter the discipline, 'like their children'.

  52. Although it's not necessary today. We must be realistic that without horses society wouldn't have existed.

  53. I agree with everything you said in this video and your racing one. I wrote a research paper on the same and a few more subjects and I think that carriages are very unethical and damaging to the horses.

  54. I drive a horse carriage our horses only work 2 days a week and not when the temp is over 85. The only night the horse stay in stables is on sat all the other days they are in a pasture. i do not work for this company and i saw how he kind of avoided answering your questions, but i do want to say its not abuse well not us anyway we have ultra light fiberglass carriages that i can pull with a full load i weigh 160ish lb and my horse weighs 1800 so i think he can do it fine im not sure what theirs is made of. Now if u want to talk about abuse amish and mennonites (most of the time) use no padding on their horses and have them work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week with little to no water or food, also they dont deworm the horse or give them shots, So if anyone is abusing horses its the amish and mennonite. If you dont agree with me we can discuss and i can answer any questions about it, Also let me add they only work for about 4-6 hours

  55. you know their are bits with rubber coatings that keep the bits soft. the bits are in between the front group of teeth and back so it fits in nicely. bits come in many shapes and sizes to keep pressure off the horses mouth. People like this should relay be Amish and they would relay second guess this.

  56. Last week there was this horse and carriage accident round the corner from my house. It consisted of a 5 year old horse that was in training tied to a carriage out on the road for the first time in his life. A cyclist rode past on his bike and the brakes squeaked the tiniest bit and the horse (that had never been in the road before, let alone being tied to a carriage) spooked and bolted, resulting in the carriage driver being ran over by the carriage and breaking his leg in three places, the horse bolting down the middle of the road and ending up in the field across from my house (which is fenced all around the outside, so the horse ran through the fence or tried to jump it with the carriage hanging on behind him) and the biker being taken in to be questioned by the police (for no reason because he slowed down to allow the horse to pass, which is the correct thing to do).

    The biker was released but the carriage driver is still in hospital a week later and the horse is injured in a range of places including his right hindleg, right foreleg, mouth/face (presumably by the bit and bridle) and also his chest area and shoulders because of the harness that wasn't padded.

  57. "but what about these people's jobs!" okay same as slaughterhouse workers my avoidance of animal exploitation is only further fueled by the idea that i wouldn't be paying these fuckers' salaries.

  58. Depents on it if the carrage is to heavy its sad but if the horse can handle it its okay but maby 1 or 2 times a Day not more and it needs to be cared for and interact with other horses

  59. I think you should read Black Beauty because it tells you how some horses are treated with respect and care, but others are treated with hate. There are multiple sides to horseback riding and carriage pulling. ๐Ÿ™‚

  60. Please do more research on spurs and do a video. In my opinion if you don't you them right it's wrong.. just my opinion.

  61. Liam Neeson was one of my favourite actors, and in just one stupid action he's lost the respect he'd earned from me.

  62. Learned so much from your videos! They answer all my questions and go so much deeper into veganism than just what we eat. Only thing I'm still unsure of is zoos as it still seems like they're important for conservation and research?

  63. Just another militant vegan you lot are pathetic be vegan that's fine but you don't see me running around on face book and you tube trying to put false clams out there so you eat meat and I have no problem eating meat because I would no problem to grow it call it lamb chop and kill and eat I agree that slaughter should be humane but you vegans are hypocrites that love nothing more than to just make people feel guilty about eating meat but you will go out and buy vegetables that are not vegan because all the farms that grow your vegetables use animals and you use glue that is made by animal products and then you sit there and just make out that your better than every one else and if being vegan is so good why do you all look so sick and get so angry all the time go eat a chook you pasty hypocrites

  64. as an equestrian, most horse-led carriages are extremely cruel.
    -lack of water during hot days
    -the horse's breed is unfit for pulling the carriage
    -usually, they are kept under horrible treatment
    -their hoofs are usually wounded by a ma-ssive load of work in the sun, when the ground is hot

  65. I live in NYC and travel to Central Park once in a while. When I see the horses, aside from knowing the horses should not be there during their work hours I wondered where they went when they were off work, and I knew they went into stables, and now I know for sure. Thank you for all your information๐Ÿ‘

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